Let's Ride w/ Paul Estrada
Who else is trying to figure $hit out?
Welcome to Lets Ride w/ Paul Estrada – the podcast where a dad tackles the big questions of life, career, and everything in between, by talking to interesting people that have the answers!
When I turned 18, I lost sleep at night with questions that Google was not yet sophisticated enough to answer: What career should I pursue? How can I be more than just average? And how do successful people get to where they are (was there a secret handbook I didn't know about)? After 22 years of pondering these existential dilemmas, I’ve finally pieced together some answers – An answer that is sufficient for now, but one always in need of refinement.
Join me each week as my 6 ½ year old son, Adrian, throws out a thought-provoking question or idea, and I invite a guest to help me sufficiently respond to him. From learning about money and investing, to finding a passion in life, and exploring careers that can be meaningful for you, we cover it all with a dose of humor and some soundbites of wisdom.
So, if you’re a parent or a young adult navigating these tricky waters, or if you want confirmation that other people are sometimes just as lost as you, you’ve come to the right place.
Let's Ride w/ Paul Estrada
Army Ranger Combat Veteran
What drives a soldier to embrace both the sacrifice and the service that come with military life? Our guest, Brett Collins, a veteran of the US Army, delves into this deeply personal question by sharing his compelling journey from civilian life to the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Through Brett's vivid storytelling, we explore the trials of military police work, the high-stakes missions with the elite 75th Ranger Regiment, and the emotional burdens carried by those who serve. His reflections provide a raw and insightful look into the intense world of combat and the profound impact it has on the lives of young soldiers.
Brett's journey doesn't end with service but transitions into the equally challenging task of returning to civilian life. The episode touches on the influence of family in military decisions, from heartfelt conversations with grandparents to defying the expectations of a proud Marine father. Brett candidly discusses the role of mentors, the quest for respect and leadership within the military, and how these experiences shape personal growth and identity. His stories reveal the weight of responsibility placed on soldiers and the resilience required to navigate both the battlefield and the complexities of returning home.
As we close our conversation, Brett shares his thoughts on parenting, the significance of military service in personal development, and the unique challenges faced by military families. With a mix of serious reflections and light-hearted anecdotes, Brett opens up about his weekend plans and appreciation for the Rockies' beauty, reminding us of the simple joys that life offers. This episode is a tribute to the sacrifices of those who serve and a thoughtful exploration of the transitions that follow military life, offering listeners a chance to understand and honor the profound journeys of soldiers like Brett.
I know what I was going to ask you what? What's one thing that Papa always talks about?
Speaker 2:Marine Corps.
Speaker 1:The Marine Corps, yeah, and what does he say? What does he say about it? He goes Marine Corps. And then what does he say?
Speaker 2:You do it Dad.
Speaker 1:Marine Corps Hoorah Like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you know why we have an army? Why do countries?
Speaker 2:To protect us.
Speaker 1:To protect us? Yes, who are they? Do you know who they're protecting us from?
Speaker 2:Enemies.
Speaker 1:Enemies, yep, and do you know who could be the enemies?
Speaker 2:Places on the other side of the world.
Speaker 1:That's a good answer. Actually Like places. Maybe you don't know about right, but just yeah. And why do you think places around the world would want to fight with us?
Speaker 2:To take over more land.
Speaker 1:That's a good answer too. So they want to do it because they want to take land.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, do you think, like the soldiers, they like they have to be away from their families? I think that's what you were telling me about the other day.
Speaker 2:Yeah Like, oh yeah Like. Why would you want to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, oh, that's what you said. So you said if you're in the military.
Speaker 2:Why would you want to be away from your family? I don't know. Why would you want to be away from your family?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so I'm going to tell you this. So I think they don't really want to be away from their family. I think it's just that's. Part of their job is that they get asked to go away and do stuff like that. Wait, did they like ask him to? Yeah, they asked him to. So that would be called making a sacrifice. Have you ever heard of that word? Sacrifice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in.
Speaker 1:Beast Games.
Speaker 2:What is a sacrifice, then Tough decision. Yeah, I think that's right, it's like you have to like like. A sacrifice means to like leave something you love or like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's maybe giving up something you love or like.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I was saying. Yeah, no, I think you're right I think that's a good way to describe it. Well, I described it like that because in Beast Games there's so many sacrifices, yeah, and I really get it.
Speaker 1:Oh well, that's good that you put that together. So these soldiers, they have to go like halfway across the world sometimes and be really, really far away from their family.
Speaker 2:At least actually you can call them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or maybe sometimes. Yeah, but they say that because they, that the soldiers, do that because they want to protect our country so that we can be safe, like here. Yeah, Right, Does that make you feel like thankful about that or like do you think about that? Do you think?
Speaker 2:No, I don't really think about it, but I do feel thankful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and I think when you get older, you know you'll probably learn more about that stuff. But I think, yeah, maybe that's the key point here is that if soldiers do one thing, is that they probably that they sacrifice a lot of things for me and for you and for a lot of people around the country, Everybody in the country, really. So that's pretty cool right. Could you imagine doing something for, like a stranger, Like something really nice, like to protect a stranger? It's pretty cool right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, see you next time. Bye. Our guest today is a wartime veteran serving in the US Army from 2008 to 2013. He spent over five years in uniform, facing the front lines of two of the most challenging conflicts of our time, his service taking him from the dusty streets of Iraq to the rugged mountains of Afghanistan. In Iraq, he operated as a military police officer tasked with safeguarding high-profile officials in hostile territories. After he completed his first tour of duty, he decided to push himself further by completing Army Ranger School and joined the Elite 75th Ranger Regiment, where he rose to the rank of sergeant. He led teams on high-stakes raids and special operations, captured and neutralized hostile threats, while navigating treacherous terrains and unpredictable situations. Today, we'll not only explore the incredible experiences he had during his service, but also how he's transitioned to life after the military. I'm excited to learn more about our guest today, brett Collins.
Speaker 2:So let's ride. Let's ride on through the rain.
Speaker 1:Come on and take me anywhere that you want to be, so let's ride. All right, so we're hanging out. It's a beautiful Saturday. The birds are chirping in the background. It's a beautiful sunny day here in Southern California. We're hanging out in Brett Collins' gym slash garage, slash man cave, Right, brett, is that a good way to describe it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's my personal space, One of my only spaces.
Speaker 1:For the first time. This is the first time we're doing this here on the let's Ride podcast, but we cracked a beer. It is a Saturday after all, so if we sound a little bit more relaxed, you guys kind of have an idea of what's driving that. So what's up, brian? How's everything going?
Speaker 3:You know another day another day in paradise, as we like to say, but it's been good. It's been good. It's been a good day so far hanging out with the kids and stuff.
Speaker 1:So we wanted to, you know, I wanted to catch up with you today. I've known you for a while and what I was thinking, I've probably known you. I'm going to say seven, eight, maybe 10 years by now.
Speaker 3:I think it's 10 years now.
Speaker 1:And you know we, we hang out, um, you know we have a couple of beers, we talk, but I knew you were in the military, but I honestly I don't think I've asked you a single question about it in the 10 years that I've known you. And I said there's there's something wrong with that, so let's, let's make that right today. So we're going to get 10 years worth of your time in the military here in one afternoon. All right, sounds like a plan.
Speaker 3:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I want to start with just all the way back to maybe, how you were as a kid growing up. Were you, in terms of your behavior, academically, just kind of set the stage for the type of kid that you were?
Speaker 3:When I was young I was good academically. Probably when I got onto high school is where I got into trouble moving from Irvine to Ontario. Not a lot of white kids at my school, probably not a I don't know man, I was kind of a. I was a little brat. I think most kids are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want people to know that aren't from Southern California what he says from Irvine. So think of Irvine like perfectly manicured streets, everything looks cookie cutter, like it's brand new. And then Ontario we're talking about, maybe surrounded by old farms and cow pastures, a little rough and tumble. Am I describing that right? Or I want to do it justice?
Speaker 3:but A Hispanic neighborhood, just like you know, and not the worst, not like down 7th Street, then Long Beach or something you know, like you see in the movies, but you know, definitely not a suburb, you know, that's the best way to describe it.
Speaker 1:And what brought you guys from? Or? I mean, I think ideally most people will do the other way around. It's like I want to start in a rough area and work my way to Irvine.
Speaker 3:My parents were split when I was very young, so you know that's a problem there Another thing to get into. But I moved from my dad's to my mom's so that my mom lived in Ontario, my dad lived in Irvine. He was, you know, married and had two other kids and I moved with my mom, which my mom lived in Ontario and yeah, that's what sparked that. So for the most part it was a good transition, but it completely changed my trajectory.
Speaker 1:And how old were you when that happened?
Speaker 3:About 13.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you were maybe eighth grade or getting ready. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I just finished eighth grade, Southlake and Irvine.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're actually getting ready to go into high school, yeah, which is like some of the most formative years, yeah, and You're actually getting ready to go into high school, which is like some of the most formative years, yeah, and you're kind of coming in as this new guy, I'm sure. Yeah, but do you remember were you worried about that transition? Were you upset because you left? I'm sure you had made a ton of friends and now you're in a new place. Like what was that?
Speaker 3:like it was okay. I mean I was always confident, but not maybe I was a little cocky, but I didn't expect what was about to happen. Like I mean, when I say that I was one of the few white kids at the school, it was, you know, I was not, I was definitely not comfortable in that area, you know, and back in that day, irvine was, you know, predominantly white, predominantly Asian you know, and it was completely different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a culture shock, basically.
Speaker 3:It was, it was, and people will tell me all the time that damn Brett, you're like Hispanic Cause I know all the Hispanic food. I drink Hispanic stuff like micheladas and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, I would have never gotten that yeah, Not being from Ontario. But the bad part was is that I was always raised to like stick up for myself and not take any crap from anybody. You know, and that's just the way I was raised by my mom and my dad and it was consistent. So when I got to high school, you know, one of the first things that you know Hispanics kids wanted to do to me it was pick on me. I just didn't have it. So that led to a lot of fighting at school, that led to a lot of problems and I ended up getting expelled from school when I was like in ninth grade and I had I mean, how far in are we talking?
Speaker 1:So you start August, are we out of there in a month or two?
Speaker 3:I was out of there within like four months.
Speaker 1:Okay, so pretty quick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it was bad. I was in a bad place because it was almost like I was acting out. I wouldn't say I was acting out, but I mean, from a distance you could say I was acting out, but it was more or less just, I did not say no to a fight and that was my problem.
Speaker 1:You weren't the one instigating it, but it sounds like to me, because you were raised to stick up for yourself and you're somebody different. You look different, you talk different, you are different. You got a target on your back and now you find yourself having to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I could have walked away, right, and that's always the best thing to do, and I think that's one of the best things that you could teach a kid is to walk away. But I wasn't taught that lesson. Yes, I had a target on my back, but I could have done a way better job and I could have been a lot more mature at that age, which I should have been, so a lot more mature at that age, which I should have been. So I ended up going to almost like an adult school after that and then that really woke me up. So I ended up going to an adult school where I would walk through a metal detector before I had to go into school, and I was a smart kid, so I was doing like pre-calculus in 10th grade once I applied myself to it and then I ended up graduating when I was 17.
Speaker 3:I didn't even finish high school. I was like you know what, Like there's no way I'm going to catch up on credits and all that kind of stuff that high school worked back then. I can't even get into that. But I ended up going the GED route and I was like you know what I finally figured out a path that I wanted to go and once that clicked in my head, I was like, okay, this is what I need to do. To do it and I. That's one thing that it takes. You know, I'm happy that I had bad influences to learn from that, because I wasn't a kid that was 19 years old, 20 years old working fast food and lost and trying to figure out what I wanted to do in life. At 17 years old I was like, okay, this is what I want to do and I'm going to make it happen.
Speaker 1:What was that that you wanted to do? The military Okay.
Speaker 3:So I made a decision that I wanted to join the military and once I made that decision, it was like, okay, I'm going to start running every day, I'm going to start doing pushups and sit-ups. I started doing research on what the physical fitness test is. I went into the recruiting office. I like dedicated myself to it. I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do, this is what's going to get me in the path of success and get me out of this neighborhood. That is just a revolving door and a lot of people don't know this about me, but my uncle was like a serious drug addict, so I would see that and that was like, I mean, he's better now, but he had a rough life, you know, and he brought that upon himself. But seeing that, seeing what he was like in that situation and everything that he did, and the way that he was on drugs, like that taught me what not to be right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just taking a step back for a minute is. It's awesome that you recognize that. Hey, I got to get out of this situation. I'm curious, though. I mean there's a lot of different things you could have done. There's a lot of different things you could have done. There's a there's a lot of different options, probably.
Speaker 3:How did you land on military being the way to do it? Well, one education, I can get a free education. I knew the benefits. Like I said, I did a lot of research. So I was like, okay, I can get a good education, I need a GED to get it in at that time that's what you needed. Yeah, I mean, I knew that I liked to fight and I loved it to the point where it was like okay, I'm a hardhead, the military can put me straight.
Speaker 3:And my grandma and grandpa were still alive at that time and I had a conversation with them about it.
Speaker 3:And that's what really took me towards it, because my grandmother sat down and have a conversation with me and she ended up dying right before I joined the military.
Speaker 3:But she had a conversation with me and she was like, if you don't get out of here, you're going to end up like your uncle, and you know that's her son. So for her to say that to her grandchild was like man, like I'm so thankful that she had that conversation with me, because once that happened I was like okay, the military, I can get out of here, I can travel, I can get an education, I don't have to go to war and I did. But in my head I was like I don't have to go to war, I can do this, I can do that, I can. Being young and I don't want to say dumb, but having all this ambition, I was like, okay, I could do this, I could do that, and I kind of planned it out. I saw the military as not an easy out, but a way to give me structure, discipline, integrity and a lot of things that I lacked because my dad just wasn't around as much.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting that, like what you're saying, because I grew up I did not join the military, but my dad was in the military United States Marine Corps and I grew up where I and I'm not exaggerating a day wouldn't go by that he wouldn't mention it in some way shape or form. I had a friend up the street whose dad was in the Navy and he would literally my friend would talk crap about the Marine Corps and my dad would grab him and put him like in an arm bar and like say until he would scream I love the Marines, right? So like that's how I grew up and so. And then I remember going up into my parents' attic and finding his duffel bag with all his uniforms in it and pulling that stuff out and saying dude, this is this looks sick.
Speaker 1:Like right, and I put it on and I'm like, and so you know, I was getting near the end of high school and I told my dad I'm like, hey, like I'm going to join the Marine Corps, and he said no, you're not.
Speaker 1:And I said what do you like? You literally like almost groomed me to do it. You would talk about it constantly every day, how much you loved it and what do you mean? You don't want me to do it. He's like no, he's like you got too much going on. Like you're going to go to school and you're and I was like shocked, honestly, that he was so adamant that I not do it. I guess I say that in the context of you had some of those, for I guess did you have anybody like that? Or I know you talked about the education and things like that, but was there like a family member or something that was kind of pushing you along in this process? It was just you, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:My mom said no, my dad said no, my dad didn't even know, until I was signed up, what was their rationale for it, like, why were they adamantly-.
Speaker 3:Because I was joining in a time of war and they knew, like they knew better, they'd lived through, you know, three different US wars at that point. So it was like whether you consider you know those smaller wars, but you know, by this time it was, I think, I joined in 2008. So we were in war for seven years at that point. It was hot and heavy at that point. So they knew.
Speaker 1:So then what was it like to defy them? I guess You're just like hey, I hear you guys, but I'm doing this anyways, what was that conversation like?
Speaker 3:Well, the conversation with my mom was the one because I love my mom.
Speaker 3:My mom did everything for me. So when she told me that she didn't support the decision, I was a little bit heartbroken, you know, and it hit me a little bit Like I had to, like, take a step back when I physically talked to her and I was like, look, I don't want to end up like my uncle, john, you know, and her brother, and I was like I don't want to end up like that, I don't want to fall into that trap, or I don't want to work a minimum wage job. I want to do this, you know, and this. When I broke it down to her, I was like, what am I going to do if I stay here, you know, am I going to go to college? Probably not, cause I didn't like school. As much as education is important, I did not like school. I just knew that I wouldn't apply myself to do anything and I wasn't going to go through four to eight years of school to be successful at something and get a, get a desk job somewhere.
Speaker 1:So maybe I think that's the point. I was trying to get across that earlier and I didn't do a very good job of it, but it's. My dad said the same thing. He got it. He graduated from high school. He's like I got nothing going on. He tried to go to community college accounting classes, like nah, it's not for me. He thought about doing that and he was like no, I need you know. He joined the military. Like the word desperate situations, but more challenging situations see the military as that way out. And is there a scenario in which somebody doesn't have to be in that situation, where it's just like, hey, they come from a solid background, but hey, this still makes sense for me to go this route? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Like you said, in your scenario, your dad was in the military right and no matter what he did in the military, he carried that out, and there's a lot of things that I do on a daily basis, that I carry that out every day too. You didn't join the military because your dad kind of steered you away from it. And, coming from any background, if your parents support it and that's what you wanted to do, because your dad did it or your grandfather did it and you were inspired, or you want to really serve your country, go for it. I can't say no to that. But coming from a, let's say, a less fortunate neighborhood, it's a way to make a lot more money in your mind than you would working fast food and you know a lot of people don't want to do that kind of stuff and they don't want to go to college or they don't want to do this and maybe they didn't have good enough grades. My grades were okay. You know I could have done other things I could have. I didn't even try Like I didn't even try to go to college. I didn't try to do anything else. It was like I said I made the decision, something clicked in my head and I was like I want to easier way.
Speaker 3:And, for an example, I got back from basic training. I had $10,000 in my account. Never had that kind of money in my life All my friends. I got back, going back to what my grandma said before she passed. She said you're going to go, you're going to travel and you're going to come back and all your friends are going to be doing exact same thing, while you would have had an experience that only 1% of the population had. And that's exactly what happened. I got back and my friends were doing the exact same thing smoking weed, drinking in the garage, hanging out with each other and I went to St Louis, missouri, for six months and had a completely different mindset and learned discipline, structure, respect a lot of things that I was lacking. Yeah, so did I fight at all when I got back? Not once, because I knew. You know like I have too much to lose now.
Speaker 1:Right. So I I'm sorry I'm bouncing around, but I have to go back, uh, to something that we didn't, we didn't close up on, and that was the conversation with your mom. So you had said that you know you were disappointed, or not disappointed, but you're she wasn't as supportive as you would have liked her to be. How did you guys leave that? Did you just say, hey, I'm like I'm sorry, you're just gonna have to be disappointed, or did she come to terms with it before you left?
Speaker 3:I don't think she ever came to terms with it. Before I left. I returned from training Like cause. I didn't see or talk to her for six months. That was the first time in my life that I I spent that much time away from my family, away from my mom. I was an 18 year old kid, so it's like a lot of my neurological wasn't even developed at that point, so she never came to terms with it, man, until I came back from training and she was so happy to see me and the cab dropped me off because I surprised her. I didn't even tell her. Yeah, it was an awesome, awesome moment. And after that I think she was more supportive because she saw the person that I became. Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:All right. So you went through basic training. What was just those first like day one? Like take me back to what do you remember about day one and just kind of getting acclimated with the decision that you'd made.
Speaker 3:I never got to get acclimated. Day one was a lot of getting streamed at going through my bags making sure I didn't bring anything that's called contraband, which could be a lighter, which could be a food. You can't bring anything. Really, all the clothes that you come in with you're never going to see until after basic training again they get you uniforms, you line up, you go in a single file line and I remember just getting my uniform put onto a table, asking what size I am. They're looking at me. They're like nope, you're not a large, you're a medium. And I was probably 150, soaking wet.
Speaker 3:At that point I got out of basic training and I was a troublemaker man. Like I said, I was a rough kid, so I got in trouble, so much in basic training I probably did more pushups than any other kid. Yeah, you know. And to the point where my drill sergeant, you know, and I found out my first duty station was going to be Hawaii and he was like you're going to deploy there and he was like, and he pulled me aside, aside, and he had another person I'm super thankful for Sergeant Spalding. I remember him because he's so influential to me but he pulled me aside and told me, like if you don't change your ways, you're going to have a really rough time in the military. And that another one right there, another life lesson that an elder told me I mean he's probably 55 years old E8, e8, e9. Actually it was an E8.
Speaker 1:For those that don't know, what is that Master Sergeant.
Speaker 3:So he's like one level away from one of the top ranks that you can achieve in the military, in the enlisted military no officers. So he gave me that advice and he told me you're going to have trouble over there if you don't shape up. And another influential person to me. So I think it's important that people understand that you're going to make mistakes and not everything's going to be perfect. But if you listen to your elders and that's the one thing that I can take away is like that helped me a lot. Those kinds of things Listen to my elders.
Speaker 1:So you get deployed to Hawaii. That's nice. It's a duty station. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 3:It was great. Hawaii was. I didn't get to appreciate it as much, but Hawaii was great. Schofield Barracks was fun. There was a lot of good people there got to experience a lot of good people and that's one thing that the military does give you is the opportunity to meet people from all over the country. Yeah, does give you is the opportunity to meet people from all over the country, which, if you're from California, or if you're from Nevada, or if you're from New York, or if you're from Texas and you've never left, you don't know what anybody else is like. You don't know what other people are like. You know, or what they're capable of, or what their skill sets are, how they're raised, you know. So it was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:At what point do you kind of decide your specialization? Because you mentioned combat experience, but first we're talking about Hawaii, which is going to be further from that right. So you decide kind of what field you're going to go into and just talk about, maybe leading up to the decision or I don't know how that works to actually get placed into a combat zone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so before you get into the military. Based on an ASVAB score you can choose.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 3:It's pretty much a test that you take to see what your intellectual level is yeah.
Speaker 3:So I took an ASVAB test, did pretty well. I had a lot of different options but, knowing myself, I knew that I didn't want to do a desk job. I knew that I did. I like to fight, like I said earlier in this podcast, and I didn't want to do infantry because I had a lot of bad animosity towards people that did infantry. I thought they were dumb and they're not. I don't want to say that they're dumb because I ended up going that direction later, but I became an MP and I after that military police.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, sorry for all the civilians over here. Yeah, I got it. I got it.
Speaker 3:I got to level it down a little bit, but I ended up becoming a military policeman, which wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I thought I only became a military policeman because I thought I was going to get a dog. Okay, yeah, it didn't work out like that. I ended up. You know, like I said, I got to Hawaii and life was a little bit different. But that whole process you go to basic training and you go to like I went to St Louis, missouri, which is where a lot of MPs go, for Fort Leonard Wood, and everybody there was going to be an MP and everybody there went different places. So I had maybe five to 10 people that went to Hawaii. So I was a very lucky person. I can't tell you how lucky I was, because there was other people that went to Benning, there was other people that went toning, there was other people that went to. Actually, alaska would have been pretty cool but it would have been really cold. But yeah, hawaii, you can't beat that duty station you know or?
Speaker 3:Korea, korea. I ended up going to Korea later for training, but I would not have wanted to stay at Korea for an entire year. I mean it would have been a good experience, but no, that's too far away and you can't leave. You know I can, being in Hawaii. It's a five-hour flight from where I'm from and it's very, very similar to California, except for the rain. It rains a lot more there, but I couldn't have asked for a better situation.
Speaker 1:So you decide you're going to be in the military Police. How does that lead to a deployment into a combat zone?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so after I got assigned to Hawaii, I actually got assigned Funny thing Another one I actually got assigned to. I believe it was 543rd. That was my first company. I barely was there. So I actually got assigned to a unit and I got set up in a perfect scenario and every single person that was in that company with me had just gotten back from Iraq. So I was in a perfect scenario to never deploy Never. I didn't even Iraq. So I was in a perfect scenario to never deploy Never. I didn't even. I would have never deployed.
Speaker 3:So I got there, I bought a car, I did all this other crazy stuff, kept myself out of trouble and started learning from all the specialists and E4s and stuff like that and people that were above me. At this time I was probably a P3, p2, which is their P4s, so they're like a year and a half away from where I was at that moment a full deployment, pretty much. And they all had combat badges on. You can tell that they were way more respected because of it. And, man, I just looked at them with envy. Man, I was just like man. I want that badge on my right arm. I had a badge on my left arm, which means your company that's usually your company patch and then below your flag. If you have a badge, that means you were in a combat zone. It means you deployed. So they all have a military badge on their arm or a badge on their right arm underneath the flag, and that pretty much means that they deployed.
Speaker 3:And I envied that and I wanted that. And being around them I could tell they were like a lot more respectful and I envied that and I wanted that. And being around them I could tell they were like a lot more respectful. And I didn't know what deployment looked like, right, and I was like man, I love to fight. I love the idea of it.
Speaker 3:I watched a lot of movies and night vision movies and combat is not like that. I had this idea in my head where I would go there and I would get a deployment in and I would get super like, highly respected and I would get fast tracked to NCO and I would be in charge earlier. And I've always been this person that wanted to be in charge. I wasn't scared of the responsibility. I've never been scared of responsibility. I've never been scared to be in charge. So I was like man, that's my way to do it faster, right and gain that respect from other people that haven't done it. And if I'm going to stay in the military and I'm going to do this for a while this is the best way to get forward.
Speaker 1:How much of this stems from? Because you're talking a lot about respect. You're talking about wanting to be in charge. Is this in any way tied to what you didn't have growing up? When you're trying to prove something to these bullies from high school, am I getting too deep here? Am I?
Speaker 3:Honestly, no, I really in my brain, I wanted to be in charge, I wanted to excel faster. I didn't want to be a four-year E4, which is unheard of. I wanted to be a three-year NCO. I wanted to be a two and a half year NCO, which is an E5. And I wanted to get to that rank because I thought, once I got to that rank, I'm in charge of a team, I'm responsible for these people, I can go on deployment and be, like you know, in charge of something and have responsibility instead of being a robot. And it's hard, because when you're an E2 or E3 in the military, or even a specialist at points, you're going to feel like a robot because all you're doing is stuff that you're told and it's coming and it comes from, you know, battalion, down to company, down to your first sergeant, down to your tune leader, and you don't realize that until you, you know you get up there.
Speaker 1:I get that. I just again, this is going to be my ignorance because I have zero experience with this, but and I'll, and people listening to that have no military experiences We've all watched the movies Saving Private Ryan. They're like, hey, this, this is about as real, quote unquote, looking as it as it can be in terms of entertainment value. But, dude, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you, even when I go paintballing like that's just, you're playing right, you're getting shot with paintballs. It's not that bad, I can your knees are shaking about poking your head out from around a wall and getting shot by a freaking paintball.
Speaker 1:This is not what we're talking about at all. This is not even on the same planet as that. So I'm just trying to, like, I get in your head building this story of what you want. But to get what you're wanting requires you to put your life on the line. So tell me more about that thought process of being like hey, there's a better than 0% chance that something terrible could happen to me, but I'm going to do this anyways.
Speaker 3:I knew that, and at that young of an age that thought didn't even cross my mind.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's like ignorance almost.
Speaker 3:Ignorance is bliss, sometimes right and my thought process was you know what I need to experience this? And my thought process was if I'm going to stay in the military long-term, I need that patch on my arm. I need that. Like I said, it wasn't what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:So you are you going over into? So I think you went to Afghanistan first, is that right?
Speaker 3:No, I went to Iraq first.
Speaker 1:Iraq first and when you go to Iraq you're going as a military police officer like in a combat zone Because I can understand that and correct me if I'm wrong here but guys get in trouble for doing something. You're the military police, but now you're in a combat zone in a foreign country. Does the job description change? Now it's not so much about policing these people as it is about something else, or is it the same dynamic? Okay, so what is that difference?
Speaker 3:When you're in what we call garrison, which is means when you're in your duty station, hawaii, right, you do exactly what you just said, which is ride around in a police car and act like a real policeman, play pretend cop on the military base.
Speaker 3:I call it pretend cop, but when you're in a combat zone, your job description changes.
Speaker 3:It goes off of what your MOE is or what you were assigned by the president or whoever the secretary of defense, whatever they assigned your unit and for us it was doing military patrol in Tulio, iraq, and I stayed there for about 15 months, so essentially one. We had to do tower guard for about four months of that guard for about four months of that, and then the rest of the time we would do missions which are rolling out and doing going with EOD and deactivating bombs and riding around and meeting with generals and you know Iraqi generals I should say Iraqi generals and we would take you know full bird colonels out and let them meet with Iraqi generals and do meet and greets and sit down and they would eat and they would talk about the village and how they can make it safer, and completely not what I thought it was going to be, like I said before, but the funny thing about Iraq is not a lot of people get shot there, they get blown up there. So that's why EOD was super important.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 3:Explosion like explosion ordinance something.
Speaker 3:It's like defusing uh, explosion, like explosion ordinance, something like defusing. Yeah, they're the ones that ride around in, like the bulletproof and bomb proof vehicles if there is such thing as a bomb proof vehicle, not really but they ride around and they detect bombs and they deactivate them, or roadside ieds, they're. They're the people that do that and we were the people that hit it and then, yeah, either get injured or die from it. So so that was our mission. It was literally doing meet and greets patrols, making sure, going through villages, and sometimes I was just like this is pointless. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1:What was it like? Never been anywhere. I mean, the first I've been is like Germany, maybe, so I can't even fathom what a part of the Middle East is even like so third world then Just I mean, but I mean like culturally. I mean this has got to be like almost like you're on a different planet, kind of like is it that foreign?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was like a different planet, Like they had some infrastructure. They had some highways, some paved roads. Where I was at, you had to drive at least 20 miles to get into the city and you were surrounded nothing but desert and dirt, no paved roads up until that point and then, once you got into the city, there was a little bit of highways, a lot of people on the streets on each side of the street. We had MOPs or method of procedures to where it was like if there's a car in your way, you make sure it moves and we do not sit in traffic, we make them move and we go straight through it. There's probably videos out there. Back in the day before I was in Iraq where people would literally rear end vehicles with Humvees and move them out of the way Because at that point it was just too dangerous to stop, not only because of firearms or anything like that, but just getting blown up.
Speaker 1:Right, so you had talked about this being a different experience. I mean, the way I'm interpreting this is you had built up this. I don't want to say fantasy, but it's like you built up this idea in your head of what you thought it was going to be like, and then you get there and it sounds like it was very different. Very different Than that. Were you really disappointed? Were you like, dude, I made the wrong decision here, or what was going through your head then?
Speaker 3:I realized quickly that I was in the wrong part of the military, if that makes sense, and I'll elaborate that as we go into the second deployment and what I did after that. But I realized that I was in the wrong profession of the military. I thought I was going to be kicking indoors. I thought that I was going to go after bad guys. Instead, I was almost like a babysitter for lieutenants and for colonels and for full birds and for one-star generals and those are very high-ranking people that talk to the secretary.
Speaker 3:Some of them would talk to the secretary of defense. At the time it was cool. I was getting a deployment under my belt, but after getting blown up a couple of times, after stuff happening to people that shouldn't have happened, you know, I quickly realized that this is pointless, like we're just riding around and now we're getting, we, we, we, literally. Someone got injured and has to go home because of an IED blowing up on them, and you know it was like for what to go? To go do a meet and greet with an Afghani general.
Speaker 1:What's that like when you when? That that's, I feel like that's when things become really real, when you're you're there doing something that you don't you think is kind of pointless, but then somebody gets seriously injured or dies, like I mean was. Can you recall your first time? Was there a level of shock there, like what was going through your mind when you're just like, oh shit, we're not in Kansas anymore, kind of thing?
Speaker 3:The first time that I saw an IED go off. I've never felt more adrenaline ever, even during my second appointment.
Speaker 1:And just for context, like where were you when that happened?
Speaker 3:I was on a dirt road and an IED went off, like I want to say two trucks in front of me, about maybe a hundred meters, 150 meters away from me, in front of me, and I was in a convoy of six trucks and I was middle of the pack.
Speaker 3:I think I was fourth, I think I was fourth truck, so I was near the rear and blew up the second truck directly on it. I've never had more adrenaline in my life, because you know they train you for how to evac that vehicle immediately and that's exactly what happened. But they also teach you like to prepare for another threat, which is like people with guns ambushing you. Right, you know that's where your training comes in, but it takes a minute. You're almost like shocked to the point where you don't remember what to do, and then your training kicks in and you're like, okay, my vehicle is supposed to go here, this person's vehicle is supposed to go here, and then you just hear a lot of people panicking that have never experienced that. Yeah, but all the people that have experienced that are the ones that know exactly what to do. It's a level of adrenaline that I've never felt as much again, ever, ever.
Speaker 1:Even in other combat, because it's like the first time they talk about. When you do a drug for the first time, it's like the biggest high and then you're always chasing that high kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Same exact thing, being shot at, never gave me that much adrenaline compared to that through that exact moment. Right, you know, after getting blown up the first time, that was a wake up call.
Speaker 3:You know, even right now I'm like thinking about it and my hands are a little tremmy, but yeah, it's just like man, it's hard to explain it. Like I said, most adrenaline I've ever felt in my life and I was scared. I was legit scared in that moment. And then, once everything else worked itself out and we were able to get around that vehicle, hook it up and get out of there and get back to the FOB safely and get those people medevaced, I felt better. But I wanted to do everything that I could in that moment to process what just happened.
Speaker 3:And when I got back to the tent and everybody was there, I just sat in silence and I was, I remember, thinking to myself like was that worth it? Like that could have been me, you know. And I was 150 meters away from maybe losing a leg or having shrapnel in my leg or getting really, really injured, instead of just having like a minor concussion. Like you know, the concussion of that blast literally blew through my truck, but what it did to them is catastrophic. So their truck was completely disabled and my truck was still rolling, you know. So I'm thankful, you know, but in the past, tense now, it's like man, that wasn't worth it, like we were literally just driving back. We had driven on that road earlier, which is the scary part, right, we were literally just driving back from meeting a meet and greet, you know, and was that necessary?
Speaker 1:Like did we need to do that? Did we? Why are we trying to play, you know? Why are we trying to? Yeah, why are we doing that? Yeah, so how old were you at the time that that happened? 19. 19 years old, yeah, so, like most people.
Speaker 1:So, if I think back to where I was 19 years old, I was at a frat party doing a beer bong and yeah, like that's kind of sad to say, based on what you're talking about, but I think it's important content like I dude I had. No, I was not anywhere near like have that ready to have that type of responsibility. I'm kind of speechless right now, to be honest, because I just we say kids can't even drink a beer legally at that age.
Speaker 3:But you can go, you can hold a firearm and go to combat and die. Yeah, like that's wild, that's crazy. And one of the guys in there was 19 years old as well. Yeah, I mean, think about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:When you think back at that you're like man, 19 years old, and like I just I think about that and bad vibes in that moment. But everything after that you know it was a little bit easier, it was a little bit easier. You could say we still got blown up and you know it became easier and easier. But I want to say at least at least 10 people had to go home that that deployment do you think, yeah, so you said it happens once.
Speaker 1:It's a huge deal. I mean, the way you're describing it and I'm looking for those of you this is a podcast. You're not looking at him right now, but you know he made it. I mean, I'm looking at you, like you just relive that moment, like yeah, with the most amount of detail in your head, and that was one of the things that we talked about before we started this. So I'm like, hey, man, if I get into something or something that you don't want to talk about, like let's like, let me know, cause, again, I've never done what you've done, but I've.
Speaker 1:I've read about it. I've heard about people that, like you guys experience things that 0.1% I don't even know what the stat is, but a very, very, very small percentage of people experience in their life. And then you guys have to go on and live with that for the rest of your life and you're saying this is 19. So this is a memory hopefully you're going to have not hopefully, but you're going to live a long, 60, 70 years that you're going to carry with you for those years, right, yeah, how does that? Just this memory in particular, but just your whole experience what you and others have to do to. I don't know if it's like suppress memories or like digest them, like get to a point, a place where you can just be, like lead a normal life, even though you you led for at least five or six years out of life a very not normal life, and then you got to go back into a civilian or quote normal life with all these things in here.
Speaker 3:That was the hardest part I think that was the hardest part is integrating back into society, into being a civilian, and the military does a terrible job of that and we're jumping like five years ahead right now. But the military does a very bad job of transitioning veterans from being a military member to a civilian. I receive money from the military every month now because of what I've been through, but I mean and some people would be like, oh my God, you know that's a lot of money to have on top of a paycheck, but I mean the stuff that I had to see and the stuff that I had to go through to get it was just not worth it. If I could do everything over again, would I not go into the military. No, I would still do it. The only reason I would still do it is because it made me a different person than what I was as a 17 year old kid and it taught me a lot. It taught me, you know, what you learn and you asked about this earlier is the third world country thing right, man? That seeing that gave me such an appreciation for the country you know and where we're at right now, where people are like oh, I'm going to leave the U? S because this person's getting elected, or this is happening or that is happening. Like you have no idea how great the U? S is, dude. Like you know, no matter who's president doesn't matter. Like you know, things could be it could be a dumpster fire here for four years straight, it doesn't matter. Like it's still 20 million times better.
Speaker 3:Because women in other countries have to wear masks around their head and get beaten to death for not doing it, you know. And men in other countries, if they're gay, get killed, you know, and that's purely because of religion. We don't have that here, you know. Like we have, we might have some discrimination, we not have people that are close-minded or people that are downright assholes, but we don't have that, you know, and I'm thankful for that. And we have infrastructure, we have plumbing, we have houses, we have help for people that are, you know, less fortunate, and those people have nothing. Those people are living in mud huts or brick houses that are made, are covered in dust and mud and have no plumbing and have to scoop out their own feces. That is what a third world country looks like.
Speaker 1:You know, brett.
Speaker 1:So that's one thing and I've talked about it on this podcast before which is my wife and myself are very fortunate for our careers and the lives that we've been able to build for ourselves and for our children.
Speaker 1:One of the things I always worry about is the balance of giving them too much and trying to find every way that I can to make them aware of how fortunate they are. I haven't experienced anything you're talking about, but I have an appreciation for it, and one of my biggest fears as a parent is that, yes, I'm very glad and fortunate that I can provide these things for my children and I'm happy to do that, but it can't come at the expense of their self-drive later on, their appreciation for things. They can't become stuck up people with no respect for other right. So it's something that we all think about as parents. So and I know I'm jumping around but since we're talking about it and since you've been through this like and you think about you, know you raising your family, like, how do you think you're going to incorporate that into you? Know what you teach your kids?
Speaker 3:I think the hardest thing? Well, obviously, self-respect, respect for others, respect for your elders, listening before speaking. Those are important things to teach your kids and self-worth. And but the hardest thing to teach your kid is the appreciation for what they have around.
Speaker 1:Right, Like everything you mentioned with the plumbing and all this. You know it's hard to connect those dots for them, right, Like they just don't get it.
Speaker 3:They won't get that Right Until they experience, or they see it or they, you know, god forbid they have social media one day. But that might show them something. But social media is so hard. To get that to your kids. I'm still trying to figure out how I can do that, you know, and I want to teach my child to be thankful more than anything, and I don't want him to see a combat zone to make him realize that. You know especially my boy. You know my girl too, but you know, having a girl it's a little bit different. But with my boy I'm like man, like I don't want you to have to go through what I had to go through and he's in a different space.
Speaker 3:I was never in a position where my little boy is now and, like I said, just like you said, I'm thankful for that. But teaching them that aspect of life and being grateful for what they have, I think it takes a little bit of grinding and I think it takes them being at the bottom or being broke or being less fortunate to be able to do that, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1:But again, that's where the. So I'm going to give you a very materialistic example, but but it was a wake-up call for me and that was you know, adrian just got to an age in baseball where it's not just a little rinky dink bat, you got to start buying nicer equipment. I still bought him the lowest end of the. I mean you can. It's just stupid how much money you could spend on things now. But you know, the cheapest bat I could find for that age group was 120 bucks. You can go spend $350 for a bat for a seven-year-old dude and I'm just like I'm not doing that right. I get him the cheapest bat, which is still not cheap, by the way. We're talking 125 bucks, yeah, and I guarantee you he's going to see the other kids on his team with the nicer bats and just right.
Speaker 1:And so it's just like okay. And then I got to figure out how to navigate that and just say like yeah, I can buy that for you, but I'm not going to, and here like here's why.
Speaker 3:And like you got to be okay with that Right Kind of thing, I think one way to help in that scenario, and what I would do is have make him earn it. If you really want something, make him earn it, you know, make him work for it, make him save up his own money. And learning the value of a dollar is probably the easiest way to teach a kid how to be thankful to them. Five bucks on a piece of candy while you're in the line is nothing, you know. Oh, let me, dad, can I get this? Or dad, can I get that while you're at the checkout line at target Right, um, but, and to them that's nothing, but if they have to earn that money and then they have to spend their own money. You know, that's one thing that I'm going to start early with. You know, and funny that you mentioned that I just we just got him my, my son, a piggy bank. For that reason I wanted him to save up his money from helping out and he's.
Speaker 1:how old is he for that? So people know.
Speaker 3:He's almost three.
Speaker 1:Almost three. So you guys, so you're starting them real young. I'm starting you know what I started a lot of.
Speaker 3:I have my own issues. You know I'm not perfect for anybody listening to this. I'm not perfect.
Speaker 1:I have high expectations. We'll spend we'll spend the next 20 minutes on how you're not perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Being from the military and this goes into having kids being from the military. I have high expectations of my child. For sure, and I think every parent does. They want their child to excel and they want their child to do good. But sometimes I find myself treating my two and a half year old like he's six or like he's Adrian's age Right, and it's like I got to step back sometimes and be like he's not that old, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I need to calm down and my wife catches me sometimes and she's like he's two years old, right, you know, and I'm like, yeah, but he should know better. It's like he's not intellectually there yet. You know, he're like holy cow, like how did you do that?
Speaker 3:How did you figure that out, you know? But sometimes it's just like why aren't you getting this? And you have to step back and you have to realize they're two years old. Yeah, just that expectation for children is is is so high nowadays and I feel like the military kind of did that to me.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get into your belt. You figured out what you maybe, what you like and you don't like. And again, maybe for the ignorance in me, how does the how does the second tour do to even come about? Is something where, okay, you've done it once, you're good, you've done your, you know you've kind of done what you need to do, um, you're good from here on out. Or it's like hey, if we want to send you back, we will, or you volunteer for it. Like, how does that decision get made?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I volunteered for the first one. Okay, right, and that's what led me to that. That deployment was purely because of me. I was like, okay, I had an opportunity, they gave me the opportunity and I said yes. And you know, seven other people in that company said yes. The second appointment I had, I had left Hawaii. I went to Fort Drum, new York, which is like almost like Canada, it's way up there right outside of Watertown, new York, and I had just gotten there. I was an E4 with a combat patch on. I get to a unit.
Speaker 1:Let me before you even get that. So let's talk about the patch, right? So the whole reason why this happened well, maybe not the whole reason, but one of the big reasons is you just told us earlier you see these guys walking around, maybe walking like they're on a cloud a lot of respect and they're wearing this patch. Now you're the guy wearing the patch, right? So was it everything you expected? Was it worth what you had to go through to get that patch? Let's go full circle on that.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say it was worth it, but it was exactly what I expected. Right when I got to Fort Drum, new York, I got to a unit where not a lot of people deployed. I was like walking on a cloud, you know, and I there was people that were above me that still hadn't had a combat patch, so I was looked at like I had a. I knew what the hell I was doing. You know what I mean and I did. I did know what I was doing. But I got to Fort Drum, new York, my contract was coming up and I had asked him okay, well, if I'm going to re-up, I want this and I wanted to get out of the MP Corps.
Speaker 3:Like I said earlier in the podcast, I was like, you know, once I got on that deployment, I was like the same for me, I don't need a dog to do this, I don't want to do this. So I requested that I go to ranger school, and that was like kind of unheard of for MPs to go to ranger school. You got to have a stellar PT score, which means that a physical training score, and mine was 300, which was the max. I was running a two mile. I was running two miles. At that time, in 11 minutes and 30 seconds, I was doing 85 pushups in two minutes. I was doing 90 sit-ups in two minutes. So I was crushing.
Speaker 1:Let's see what you got right now, man was crushing.
Speaker 3:Let's see what you got right now, man, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Not anymore, bro, I'm almost 35.
Speaker 3:But yeah, no, I was very, very strong, very, very fit at that moment and I was fresh, I was probably 21 years old, right. So my back felt great and I was never sore, you know. But yeah, I mean. So I wanted to go to ranger school and they gave it to me. So I went to ranger school.
Speaker 3:The hardest ranger school was harder than employment. That was 60 days of not sleeping and for those that don't know, the military only has to give you four hours of sleep a night and it doesn't have to be consecutive. So that's the hardest part is I was used to like at least getting some. Like you know and I'm I've always been a person that I can operate off of four hours of sleep, as long as it's consecutive, but not having consecutive hours of sleep, like they would literally tell you to go, they would tell you to go back to your bunk, and as soon as you went back to your bunk you would hit the pillow because you'd be so tired and then they'd wake you up in like an hour and a half and then you'd stay up for another seven hours and then lay down for two, and then, you know, they wake you up and then you'd get your extra 30 minutes later. You know, and it was like that was my life for 60 days, going through you know hell week swamp phase, you know, you name it. It was bad. That portion of ranger school and ranger assessment was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 3:So I went through ranger school and then I went to a company once again that had just gotten back from employment and I got offered a team leader position because I had already had a prior deployment and a lot of people that were NCOs in the ranger battalion or elderly E4s had deployments. I went to a unit that had just gotten back and I got offered a team leader position. So then in my mind I was like man now. And for those that also don't know, rangers are like in the army, the second highest level of expertise when it comes to combat that you can possibly go in. It's one of the hardest schools in the military period. So you're revered and I went through a little bit of training.
Speaker 3:I ended up going to Bangladesh for a little bit and then I ended up going to Korea for a little bit and then I came back to the States and did some training in Fort Drum and then Fort Benning, and then I was like okay, I'm ready for my second deployment. And I did that. So I volunteered for my second deployment. I went to a second battalion, 75th Rangers, and I immediately deployed to Afghanistan. And the reason why I did it is because I wanted to do it as a team leader now. Now I wanted to do it with me being in charge of other people, right, and experience what it's like to be in a combat zone, and as a team leader and somebody that knows what he's doing, that's done it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's done it. But this deployment was going to be different and I was scared because this deployment I knew I was going to be kicking in doors. I knew that I was going to be on the offensive, not the little patrols or anything like that. I knew that I was going to be going after people, so that was different.
Speaker 1:Tell me about. I mean, you talk about responsibility. So now you're a team lead, you've got combat experience and, effectively, how many people are on your team? Okay, so three people who, effectively, their lives are in your hands. And you're how old? 21 years old, and you literally have the responsibility.
Speaker 3:By the time I deployed, I was 21 years old, going into ranger school, going through all the process and changes and all the training. By the time I actually deployed, I was 22.
Speaker 1:So I'm for perspective, I'm in downtown Fullerton blocking out on $20 Thursday night all you can drink and.
Speaker 3:Brits, I'm a 22 year old about to lead people into Congress.
Speaker 1:Right, fair Makes perfect sense to me as compared to what I was doing. Anyways, okay, yeah, so you've got this massive responsibility.
Speaker 3:I think that's where and this. I got out of the military after this. For people that don't know, I got out of the military when I was about to be 24 years old. I learned a lot on that deployment because that deployment was bad, you know, I a lot of people, people died that deployment. I lost my best friend. That deployment. I saw things that nobody should ever see Right and I think that deployment is the one that put me over the edge, like and I had actually met my wife during that deployment. I reconnected with her. I've I know my wife since I was in fourth grade, but I reconnected with my wife during that appointment.
Speaker 3:And, uh, you know, I was going through and I was kicking doors in and we were going after people and people that were harming American citizens. We were losing people, we were getting shot at all the time we were taking we were landing in the middle of villages in a helicopter and just taking the village over. You know and you can see how that's going to go sometimes the people that are going to defend themselves, um, so, yeah, it was an eyeopening experience and I think about four months into it, after the, after the you know about month in, a lot of the adrenaline goes away and you're kind of used to it and you're like you're so tired and you're just beat up and you're, you know, at this point I'm, I don't have any free time. Like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm always on call. At this point, like I'm an on call I don't even know how how to put it, but I, I'm a person that's on call to go to go either capture or you know off somebody Right, and the other people around me are the same person. So there it's a very high trained.
Speaker 3:You're worth probably 10 to $15 million as a person, as a ranger. You've had all the training that the military has to offer. You work alongside Navy SEALs, special forces. I work alongside the best of the best people. So I got to do a lot and when that happened, I don't want to say I got burnt out, but I knew that I didn't want to do it forever. You know, I was like man, this is, this is hard, not just hard on like to do, but I mean I was fine with the physical activity and I was fine with everything else, but seeing people like you know, incarcerated, um to say it the nicest way, and then seeing your friends. I think what really hurt me was when my best friend, frank, died and I had known him for a long time when that happened like my whole military career, pretty much. So people will be like, oh, you only knew him for like four years. But when four years in the military- with somebody.
Speaker 3:I'm spending every moment with that person and I've never, even to this day, I've never been closer to somebody than I was to Frank. I mean I slept next to him for 15 months. I mean I deployed with him for 15 months. I went to ranger school with him. I went through my life in the military with that guy and yeah, after that my mind was still there.
Speaker 3:I knew I didn't want to get myself killed or something, but to lose your best friend and then the next day have to go out on a mission. And you know like, yeah, it was. I knew right then and there I didn't want to do it anymore and I was. You know I kind of checked myself out like out of the military. And as soon as I got home from the military I was like, okay, how much leave do I have left? And you know, as soon as I got home from deployment I should say, because I spent nine months there as soon as I got home from deployment I knew right away I was like I need to take leave and I want to do this and I want to do that and I want to get out of the military as soon as I can. And you know, it made transitioning a little bit easier, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, For those that don't obviously none of us have any sort of clue in a lot of detail about how the first deployment was. This was very different. And now you're talking about, like you said, landing in helicopters and villages and taking down doors, and is there again, without getting into too much detail if you don't want to, but just to give people a better sense of what an experience of that is like Like being literally face-to-face with enemy combatant or just people that don't want you there and just having bullets.
Speaker 1:don't want you there and just having having bullets shot at towards you or in your direction or I don't want to say we're landing in the middle of a 360 right.
Speaker 3:We were very strategic. We would get a brief on where we were going to land and where people were going to be, and we would go in the middle of the night. So we had the advantage, we had night vision on, we had ir on, we had drones above us. So, you know, we had all the technology, you know, and the Navy SEALs were there a lot of the times too, and sometimes we would, we would take a back seat because the Navy SEALs were there. You know, the Navy SEALs would go in and handle their business and we would make sure that nobody flanked them from the other side. You know, and but the missions that we were the primary, we would land in the middle of the night and get to go, and we would get to go and then fly on a Blackhawk or a couple Blackhawks or a Chinook and land outside of it, take maybe a 10, 15 minute hike and go get the person that we wanted to get, and whether it was dead or alive, we were getting them.
Speaker 3:And sometimes it didn't work out that well. Sometimes it worked out that well, sometimes it worked out flawlessly. Sometimes we were able to get to the point, to where nobody even knew we were there, you know. And sometimes we got to the point where as soon as we got into the village, they had people waiting and it was like they almost knew that we were coming and maybe we just landed a little bit too close. But we never did hot. We never did hot drops or anything like that, which is awesome.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like the Vietnam War or rappelling out of a helicopter in the middle of a war zone. It's not like that. We're about a click out at least, and landing and hiking in and with drones above us and making sure that we're coming in at a certain point, and then we would have the drone get ahead of us and scope out the village and you know, we'd have sniper teams behind us, we would have our assault teams in front of them and we would go make shit happen, as you say. So. But I got exactly what I signed up for. That's what I thought I was going to do in the first deployment, right. And then, funny thing is, when you sign up for it, that's what you're going to get and you know that is the deployment that put it all in. You know, it was like man, I did all this to become this person and now I don't even want to be this person, you know. And was it worth it? I think it was worth it. It was, it was good.
Speaker 1:You know, it was From my perspective, which is just from what I've heard in the last hour is how his story started, which is a kid that gets dropped into an unfamiliar place. So that sounds a lot familiar from that respect, right? Yep, that doesn't have a lot going for him. That's trying to avoid going down a road to now somebody that made somebody, or starting to make somebody of themselves, that's pressed themselves not to just be in the military but to take on the duty of going into a combat zone to take on, hey, I'm going to push myself further and become a ranger. So you see the development happening here, right, which is this person that's now more disciplined? That's, you got some things under your belt now, like, you've got momentum, you know in terms of, like, what you're accomplishing as a person, and so then you go through these experiences. Now you come back and you got some tools. Now, right, like man, you've done some stuff. You've got some wins under your belt. You know where do you feel like you take that, did you?
Speaker 1:feel like you had momentum, Like you're like hey, I'm-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I felt like I was on top of the world when I was a ranger. I felt like I was one of the most important people in the United States, like I was literally getting. I was literally part of groups that were getting the most high value targets that you can possibly get Not Osama bin Laden or anything like that, maybe the jack of cards and maybe a freaking a queen or a you know a 10 of spades. You know like I was getting good target. We were getting people that were trying to harm us citizens actively and and and were in charge of terrorist groups, like we were not. And I got what I signed up for, you know, like I said, but I think the most important thing is the way I look back at. It is like what could I use in my everyday life that I did when I was there? Absolutely nothing, unless somebody invades the United States and I need to do my thing. It's not going to do any good for me.
Speaker 1:I think those skills, brett, but what I'm more so thinking about is the underlying skills, which is the discipline, this idea of self-worth, because you just said that I was a ranger, so now you got a lot of confidence.
Speaker 1:So those are the things that are transferable, right. So you're back now and you're like okay, you've done some stuff, you've got some momentum, now you're going into the professional world. I'm assuming and I know we're fast forwarding a bunch, but just to kind of get to it, it's amazing that you got to serve your country, that you did the things that you did to protect America and its freedoms. But now you like, I mean from what I see from you now, right, which is I still see you not satisfied, right, and I, you know, we talk about. One thing we do talk about is hey, I just took this job at this, this role at this company, and I see what you're doing, which is like you're trying to progress, you're trying to get, find that place that you know you can really make a name for yourself. So a lot of the same again. I didn't know nothing about your military experience, but I'm hearing the same story being told. Now we're in a civil, in a civilian world, but a lot of the same parallels in that sense right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot of the trying to climb the ladder as fast as possible.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:It's the same thing and trying to make a name for myself, I think that's probably the easiest way to put it is. I think that's probably the easiest way to put it because it's almost like a trend man I want to be, I want to be. My wife asked me all the time like are you okay with that responsibility? And I'm like, yeah, why not? You know, and a lot of people don't want to take the next step in life because they're scared of the other side, they're scared of the responsibility, right, and they they think it'll ruin them or it'll make it to where it's like it's too much or something like that.
Speaker 3:But I don't view it like that man. I view it as, like you know this, even the opportunity, even the where I'm at right now, you know I, I do project management for construction, I have an office job now, but I never, ever, am satisfied. I always want to be doing something better. I always want to strive for doing something better because I mean, let's face it, I'm still. I'm 34 years old. I want to. I still have a lot of things that I want to accomplish. I want to. I want to provide even more for my family, just like every single other person. I want to make a name for myself. I want to leave something for my children that's better than what I had Right, and I think that's that's where my drive comes.
Speaker 1:Now is is from my kids, man we're talking about something where we can actually have uh similarities that we can actually connect on. Uh, yeah, we finally got, because everything else, everything else could not have been I. I is hard like, how do I contribute? To like, because anything I'm going to say is going to sound extremely trivial as compared to what brett was doing. But no, I think you know that's what this is about, too right, which is like it's exactly that, which is I haven't gotten into a lot of this yet, but I mean doing exactly what you're doing which is I have a full-time career, but I've tried and failed at a bunch of things professionally as well, and I'm almost four. I got five years on it. I'm almost 40. I'm going to be 40 this year. You know it's that. That's one thing I like about about the, that friend group is I think we're all similar and, like you said, I think we're all similar. Like you said, I think a lot of people are like that. I think it's just to what degree are you willing to go to sacrifice to? Really? Like I said, with you, you've bounced to a couple of different companies. It seems like you kind of found your footing with where you're at now. I was looking at your LinkedIn, I'm like holy shit, who's this guy? And like nice looking professional photo. And I was looking through your resume. I'm like damn dude, this guy's got some stuff going on, so it's really cool man. So I think that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I think the last question I have for you is as it relates to your family. So I kind of at the beginning, I shared a story with you about how my dad talked about his military. Again, he was not in combat but is very proud and as well he should be for serving his country in the Marine Corps. He's got the globe and anchor tattoo on his arm and he still hangs out with his military buddies. In fact, he's in Fiji right now hanging out with a guy that he went to basic training with. Like you mentioned earlier, these are guys that it might've been two or three years out of his life, but they're in his life forever. They're brothers, just like you said, and so my dad made that a part of my life and my siblings where he just would talk about he wouldn't get into this detail and things like that but just the pride of being in the military. So, as you think about that with your kids, have you kind of thought about how you he is, but whether he hates it or he loves it.
Speaker 3:But I want him to take the good out of what I've done what I've done Right and I want to share those experiences with him and kind of pass along that side of it Right, but I don't want him to ever join the military.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so come in full circle, right. So now I don't want him to do it and that's like have you thought about let's just say let's fast forward 15 years, if that conversation were to ever come up. Like, what's your response to that? Like, is there a world in which, like, is it like with you and your mom, where he may just hey, this is something really he's going to defy you and just do it anyways? Is there a world where you go like, hey, so I'm like okay, like I got to support you, like I know we're, we're 50, I'm thinking way, way out, but just want to come for a circle on that.
Speaker 3:This is a great question and something that I thought about. It's hard because when your dad was a military guy and you were raised kind of that way, you said it yourself you wanted to join and then your dad was like, no, and would I support it? One. It depends on the time. I don't know what 15 years looks like right now, if we're going to be in a war or what he's going to want to do. I would say I would support it if it was something that led to his career being better in the civilian world. Because that's one thing that I regret the fact that I did all that stuff.
Speaker 3:I left the military and it did absolutely nothing for me, Absolutely nothing. It gives me a paycheck from the military every week or every month, like I said earlier, but it did nothing for my career because I didn't go into that. I didn't become a civilian contractor because I wanted to have a family. I didn't go make $200,000 a year in a foreign country and operate over there with people back in the day like Blackwater or anything like that, because of the fact that I wanted to have a family. I knew what I wanted. Again, Remember, it's the same concept, but for him. Obviously I know his mom wouldn't want that I would support it. Like I said, I would support it only if he was doing something that wasn't just running gun related Right, If it was an engineer, specialized, something that is transferable.
Speaker 1:Or like maybe an officer like going in as a.
Speaker 3:Yeah, going in with education, going to West Point or something like that Cool, you know. And whatever you know, I would, I would, I recommend that. No, officers not my favorite person, but whatever I mean. Officers are a good profession, they make a lot more money, but at the same time it's like, unless it's transferable, don't do it, man. That's how I would look at it for my daughter Hell, no, hell, no, you're never going in that, I'll make sure of it. So, yeah, I mean to.
Speaker 3:To end this, you know what I say let your kids join the military. I, I wouldn't recommend it unless it's transferable, you know. But your kids are going to have to make their own decisions, right, and, like you said, you're 40 years old and you've done this, that and the other, and I'm, I'm 34 and I've done A, b, c and D, all the way to like freaking H or I or J or you know, and and I still have to get to Z, right, and. But you, you have to have failures and you have to learn, and I think that's the most important thing is like I learned from my mistakes and that's one thing that I want to teach my kid is to learn from his mistakes, man, because it helped me.
Speaker 1:Brett, thank you for for your service and what you've done for our country and go enjoy the rest of the Saturday. Let's finish these beers up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, yeah, I got some golfing tomorrow, so I'm stoked and maybe have some friends come over All right, man Talk soon. All right, man, See you Bye. Thanks everybody.
Speaker 1:The Rockies ain't too far from here if we drive the cold that will do you well in the mountain morning light.
Speaker 2:So let's ride. Let's ride on through the rain.
Speaker 3:Come on and take me anywhere that you wanna be.
Speaker 2:Let's ride and let's ride. Let's follow the skyline, and when we make it to the other side, we'll find all the bluest skies.